SHAWNEE MIGRATION

STUART wrote:

Chief Don and I have been tracking the history of the Shawnee through their extensive inscriptions. They arrived in Ohio in 400±1 BC on a fleet of Carthaginian ships, refugees from the Po Valley of Italy, where they had been chased out by Boii in 402 BC. Romans called them Rhaetic, and their script matches that of the Shawnee. In Ohio they are called Adena Mound Builders.

Some of this information is new to me.  I have no information to reject your statements.   

The time, 400±1 BC appears to be close to that of the BOURNE Stone, in New England.  [Look at the Wikipedia version to get Barry Fell’s translation.]

So the Carthage ships in America at that time appears to be supported by marks “carved in stone.”

I do know that the Shawnee knew the Tifinaq script.  The Shawnee slab and Barry Fell’s copper axes are evidence of that.  I associate Tifinaq script with the Copper Haulers and the Adena era.

The time 400±1 BC is in the middle of my Adena Paradigm.  I do agree that the Adena were mound builders in the Ohio River valley.

Don Green wrote on July 19:

 The Norse of Greenland would/should have known much more of their oral history than we currently do and as such may have known of contacts, colonies, explorations from their long ago years.

With that in their minds they would have crossed the ice in search of any remnants of those people from their bygone years.

 Exactly how much language, culture and such that those in North America may have retained when the Norse arrived here would be wild conjecture for me at this time.

 But no doubt the Norse spread across much of the continent by intermingling with those very remnants so perhaps they did retain more of the pre-1000 AD language and culture than many assume today.

However, I am puzzled.  How did the Mound Builders become “Shawnees?”

In my Paradigm the Adena in the Ohio River valley were called the “Suden,” which may be a word that means “South”

I have a hypothesis that the English redefined the word “Suden” to be “Sioux.” To hide the evidence that “southern Norse” lived in the Ohio Valley

An University of Texas Professor, George Hyde,   published a book [1962] that described the “Sioux” as being “blown out” of the OHIO River Valley by some large Catastrophe.


Hyde postulated that when the Sioux were first recorded by Europeans they had locations from Virginia to the Mississippi as if they had been "blown out" of the Ohio River Valley.

A Norwegian scholar, Anita Stromsted, commented that "Sioux" might be a variation of "Suden." which might be an old variation for "South" That authority also made the hypothesis that the mound builders were people who spoke ancient Norse.

My hypothesis is that a large tribe of cannibals from the drought impacted west ate their way along the OHIO river.

 After being scattered is all directions, the Sioux regrouped, crossed the Mississippi River, going west, and migrated north on the west side of the Mississippi to confront the LENAPE, who were migrating south.

I have testimony from a Sioux Chief who complained that the Asslenipolis [a Lenape tribe] was siding with the Christinaux [another Lenape tribe] "even though "we speak with the same tongue." This testimony tells me that the Sioux and the Norse Lenape did speak dialects of the same language.

Chief Commada, who made me part of the Wolf Clan, commented that he could talk to the Siouux because their language was similar. He thought the Sioux were just using older words.

Today Sioux and Asslenipolis tribes are on the same reservation in Montana. The arrogant French thought Asslenipolis really meant Assiniboin, for "boiling bones." 

Asslenipolis means "Our pure father of Light," which is a phrase that might be used by people who have learned the principles in John's gospel. Lenape appear to have learned the principles of John's gospel very well.

I associate Shawnee with the group going south after the c 1450 division of the LENAPE and the SHAWNEE in OHIO.  My paradigm is that the Shawnee are “Southern LENAPE.”

I do not, yet, have a paradigm that has “Southern Lenape” (Christians) merging with the Sioux of the Adena Culture [ODIN (Old Norse) religion.]

I think we need to resolve that merger.

I propose this hypothesis:
These are stanzas from Chapter five of the LENAPE HISTORY

4. Good-and-Strong was chief; the people were many.

7. Always-There was chief; the towns were many.

10. The Nanticokes and the Shawnees
 going to the south.

 Please remember that the separation of the Shawano and Lenape that we hear so often today is based on the Lenape point of view but  considering that there is much more evidece ; in places names, group names and such of a widespread Shawano presence than there is for a Lenape presence, it may have been that approximate date more accurately reflects when the Lenape pulled away from the Shawano as a body than vice versa.

The “name” or term “Shawano” in various spellings is found nearly everywhere that any Algonquian speaking people are found while the same “Lenape” has a very small sphere of acknowledgement.  

I would suspect that it is more prudent to calculate that the wider spread term comes from the main body of people while the much smaller one represents a local group that either willingly or in some other fashion became distanced from the main group.

These stanzas are from chapter five of the LENAPE HISTORY.  They seem to tell a history of the LENAPE following the cannibals along the OHIO River.

  The LENAPE appear to have been the "GOOD GUYS" who restored safety and order to a country side ravaged by cannibals.  Hyde wrote over and over of the canni als eating their way across Ohio.

Then the SHAWNEE seperated from the LENAPE.

Somewhere along the way, the Shawnee might have picked up the SHAWNEE SLAB.  We do not know the context of the copper axes that Barry Fell deciphered.

This hypothesis would imply that the people of 400±1 BC would be more assocated more with the Roman fort (and mound) builders.

The Shawnee of the LENAPE History would have passed through Ohio country side about two thousand years later.  Besides restoring law and order, they may have picked up ancient artifacts.

So, I suggest, the people of 400±1 BC are NOT the people recorded in the LENAPE History, but both people spoke Norse.

 Little of what we are discussing is literally “written in stone” and much of it is subject to many interpretations so I pray that no one digs in their heels and becomes contentious while it is being discussed.

 I have much to add in regards to the origin of the people known to the historical Shawnee as the Shawano but as that information is to be part of future books on history am hesitant to distribute in at this time.

Links to Discussion topics:

DISCUSSION

LENAPE SPOKE FINNISH

HEKLA

OHIO and KENTUCY