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Saturday, February 16, 2019


   The links to updates 8 though 19 were not added to the UPDATE table of contents.
I have the updates, but you can not link to them.  I think moving on is the better choice.
I remeber that long ago I searched the internet for Barry Fell stuff.  All I could find then was a long article from some "professor" who proclaimed that Fell was a fraud.
So the mystery is, how did a video of the BRONZE AGE with Barry Fell himself doing the presentation show up in the American History Organization group?
However it happed the permanent link is now in LENAPE LEARNING.
View it often and each time you do, curse the professor, who could not tell his ...
Another guy we might curse (or praise) is President Trump, who thinks he is slamming Elizabeth Warren by calling her "Pocahontas."
He offered her a million dollars if she got her DNA.
Then, when she did, he refused to pay up, :-(
Her DNA shows that she is a true blood American (Indian) with two recessive genes.
She looks like a Scandinavian.

Americas used to hold true bloods with recessive genes in very high esteem.  If that tradition still remains, Trump may have given away 3 to 6 million votes.
Shrewd fellow.
Does anybody here know of ANY university ANYWHERE that teaches a course about the Norse being in America before the English invaded.
We get many items of 
evidence posted  on our wall.  But until we can send our kids or grandkids to an university, which teaches 101 Norse in America, we have not succeeded as an American History Organization.
Find a university! 

Friday, February 15, 2019


Valdimar wrote,"
...part of the puzzle though it may be known to most every one here. 
“It says. Icelandic merchant coming from Ireland no his way home to Iceland. Due to westerly he ends/lands in Whiteman land called Ireland the grate.”
Myron answered, The French explorer Cartier (1534-42) made two voyages in an attempt to find “whitemandsland (a.k.a. Saguenay).”  The Americans led him astray on the first voyage by (? deliberately?) guiding him to the eastern Saguenay” area east of Quebec on the St. Lawrence Seaway.
(BTW “Saguenay-aw” means, “slow water” in Old Norse.  There are TWO  “Saguenay-aw” areas along the Lake Ontario – St. Lawrence Kanal Dal (Canada) valley.
The episode was probably somewhere here because the direct access to the North Sea is mentioned.  The "evil" Iroquois also roamed the south side of the waterway. 

 The rapids west of MONTEAL stopped
him during the second attempt.
(BTW the Old Norse name forMONTREAL was “Hochelaga” (a.k.a. “High Hill stratified”).  The French clarified the place name by calling it MONTREAL (Real Mountain J).
The behavior of the Americans makes me think that they DID NOT WANT Cartier to find “Whiteman’s land.”
The Americans immediately destroyed the large cross Cartier erected on his way home.  They might have believed—correctly--that the cross was to be a territorial marker.
I think the second “Whiteman’s land” was in the area around Saginaw, Michigan, where the Christian themed Michigan Plates were found.
(The plates are now stored in a Michigan Museum, out of sight so the academic professors may continue to teach that no one from the east side of the Atlantic was in America before Columbus.)
 "He and crew are imprison by Irish ''like'' speaking people and, while debate about to killing the crew, men on horses come in.  (All names in our genealogy record for last 1000 years.)
Chieftain on that horse team walks over to speak to the Irish like speaking people (it seems like debatable if they are Irish but those merchants did lots of business with Ireland should have been sure or not) and makes deal to take those Icelanders and say’s I will take full responsibility of them. He starts talk with the Icelanders and tells them to get out right away, as those others are evil and unreliable.
This may have been the time period when Hochelaga (a.k.a Montreal) changed hands between the Norse speaking people in the North and the Iroquois people, who ate people, in the south.
The man on horseback may have been a Shawnee (southern Lenape) and the “evil and unreliable” people may have been the Iroquois, who ate people.

(BTW, The brutal scorched earth campaign of General Sullivan in 1779-80 may have eliminated most Iroquois, who ate people.  The Iroquois, now, have more singers of peace and brotherhood than the average tribe.
“Merchant chief asks who is that man who is saving us. I will not tell you my name but tell the people at home to never come here to this place, as it is not safe. I am getting old and will do my best to survive with my people. 
“How can I thank you said the Captain of the ship.
“Take this ring and that small sword and give the ring to the housewife at Fróðá (yes Frode river.) and the sword to her son.
“You can visualize that story that happened around 1000 years ago.”
 (A few centuries later –about AD 1200, might be a better guess.)
“Everybody in Iceland new that man was Björn Breidvikinga kappi. He was deported by the love of his live family and because he was not of high enough rank he became successful merchant but ended in Whiteman’s land. 
“I would not be surprised the Icelandic horses were those among the Mandan and the horses in the mountains Lewis and Clark found.”

Also the ponies near Roanoke, NC, where they still are today and where John White painted, in 1585, the “Ponies” village, which had a fence with posts spaced so that the Ponies on the outside could not walk into the village.
The Americans traveled by boat.  Who would torture his ass on the back of a horse? The English seem to have wanted suppress the ponies to make the “savage pagans” appear to be so primitive that they did not even have horses.
When the Spanish demonstrated the use of horses in war, all them mustangs of the 17th, 18th and 19th century Norse on the plains came trotting out of the hills.

Thursday, February 7, 2019


Both strings of 
DNA are
recessive genes from her
First American ancestors.
ELIZABETH looks like her ancestors.
the Shawnee.
Search for
Tap on 
Then tap on 
Then tap on
Or go directly to

Wednesday, February 6, 2019


Re: ''This Was Vinland'' the Great Lakes Region of America''

From: Myron Paine
To: KAHoenke
Cc: judy/s papergoods, Valdimar Samúelsson <valdimar, steve hilgren
Mon, 04 Feb 2019 17:52:21 -0000 (GMT

Subject: Re: 2019 Dates
Karl is an unique person.  He is the only one I know who has stayed in touch with Valdimar, Steve, myself and Richard Thornton of the people of one fire.

Besides Karl has the talent to listen and find simple words to explain things.  His "many people came in many boats from many places" comment is still as valid as when he first said it, over a decade ago.

I suggest that Steve, Valdimar, Richard and I are,all, worth 45 minutes of discussion.  Karl himself should be worth another 45 minutes of summary. The ideas spawned by the discussion of the work of the four of us would be worthy of another 45 minutes of discussion by Karl himself.  The discussion might be led by someone other than Karl, so he can pull himself together for the summary session,

I hope you can pull the AMERICA before Columbus session together.

All sessions of the Ancient American conferences are good, but this one may be one of the better ones.

Have a good one.

Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:45 AM 
Valdimar Samúelsson wrote:

Talking about Karls qoute if I understand you right "many people came in many boats from many places"

I copied this from Gudbrand site http://oldgreenland.com

''                         Þann 18 Julí 1290 er öllum 
Palestínumönnum í Englandi vísað úr landi, í allt 17000 manns í aðgerðinni''

He says. ''18 of July 1290 all Palestinian 17.000 in England were deported '' He believes they came to the new land or in to Hudson Bay.  But sure it could be in other places, but was there another safe place.?

Whatever or whereever 17.000 is quite a bit. Palestinians   if i understood Gudbrand right are the Jews.

Yes Karl would be right and sure this applies to many other people in that time era.


PS some of Gudbrands material is in English.

From: Myron Paine 
Monday,February 4, 2019 2:54 PM
To: Valdimar Samúelsson KAHoenke; judys papergoods; steve hilgren
Subject: Re: 2019 dates

Thanks for the info.
I wonder about the "Palestinians."  I find it difficult to believe there were that many Jews in England.  But the Catholic/protestant troubles did not start until after 1509.

We have evidence that Jews were were in America, (The Moses stone--Karl has a replica-- and other Hebrew script in the HOPEWELL culture.

Also the Cherokee have a strong tradition similar to the jews.)

So there may have been a larger migration of Jews than I think there was.

We are talking about over 1000 boats rowing into the "Cristian Sea" (Hudson Bay), up (going south) the Nelson River into Lake Winnipeg.

At the south end of Lake Winnipeg they went three ways.

But, if the Jews were headed to the HOPEWELL region, they may have gone east to Thunder Bay on Lake Supier.  Then across Lake superior.  Then into Lake Ontario and Lake Erie.

I think the known evidence fits together.
As an Agriculture Engineer, I have often thought the Newark Ohio complex was facilities for working a buffalo herd. 

If I had known that maybe 17.000 Jews were in the region, I would have been more aggressive about my hypothesis.

When the English suppressed knowledge by omission they sure wiped out a lot of migration studies.
Have a good one
Feb 4, 2019, 7:53 PM
Steve to me, valdimar.samuelsson, Karl, Aidon, thowsen, Frode

Isn't it something of a commentary on our historical outlook at this late date that the suggestion of a Norse exploration and settlement of the Great Lakes region of America almost 1000 years ago is received with reserve?

Superficially the notion that the Vinland of the Vikings lay only on the Atlantic coast is perhaps allowable but only by ignoring the records and relic of our first white visitors is it justifiable.

Has not the whole Vinland debate been distinguished hereto - foremore by a welter of notions than by consideration of facts.

The Vikings of Greenland are shown sailing west into Hudson Strait, (Gunnungagap)  across Hudson Bay, (their ''Outer Ocean'') down the west coast of Hudson Bay (with its low west shore) with it's vast beaches and barren shore, to the mouth of the Hayes River.

The fundamentals here set forth are reasonably beyond question, that Vinland was the Great Lakes area of America.

This does not argue that the Atlantic coast, or a portion of it was not included in the Vinland of the Norse.

The desire is merely to emphasize the argument for the Great Lakes Area as having been the territory occupied by the Norsemen.

The historical writers who seek to locate Vinland only on the Atlantic coast seam to be making unnecessary trouble for themselves.

How could Norse relics have been distributed all over the Great Lakes region if the Norsemen had not been there? Nowadays it should be the fashion to at least consider the facts.

It has been denied that they were the first white men to discover America or to settle in the Great Lakes Region. It has been doubted they crossed the Atlantic from Norway.

In 1903-4 an account of the finding in a muskeg of the remains of a Norse boat by men who were digging a North Dakota drainage ditch to connect with the Red River.

Holmn City,1938. He found a a layer of earth 12 feet over the water level, the rotted remains of a large boat with a rounded construction and large boat with bowed ends.

Self sown wheat (prairie grass) and No frost in winter must mean the Vikings had reached the prairie.

On an island far to the west the norsemen found a wooden corn barn.
 (the promontory of Winlandia (A.k.a the long  narrow strip of high ground in western minnesota. This is my question)
thanks steve
PS from Steve to ALL

This all quoted from;
James W. Curran  May 1, 1939  from his book ''This Was Vinland'' The Great Lakes Region of America
Free version available online.

This guy agrees with us (or we with him) but he had figured this out 80 years ago. And all this was before the Newfoundland discovery too.

Archaeology news today reported CNN says that the 65 million natives killed in central and north and south America by the europeans caused climate change. I don't buy it. There were not 65 million alive or dead,,  that's rather ridiculous too. I also don't believe the Mandans were welsh or from prince Maddok and that there were 17000 jews sailing to America too unless they walked on water,,,. I would rather believe in ghosts or Santa and the earth is flat. .''Napolan said history is a made up story others agree with''.


On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 10:47 AM KAHoenke <knkrhino@comcast.net> wrote:

“In a pinch” I  could present an update of their work on their behalf, or we could try to get Steve to join us, though he’s a bit “conf shy”.  Would there be a place for such a presentation?  If interested I will start assembling the appropriate info.

Karl & Katherine Hoenke

3049 Golden Rain Road  #8

Walnut Creek, CA  94595


8262 North Heights

Kelseyville, CA   95451


Karl cell  925-202-3147

Katherine cell  925-548-7755

From:judyspapergoods@charter.net [mailto:judyspapergoods@charter.net]
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2019 11:30 AM
To: 'KAH'
Subject: Re: 2019 dates

YAH! R!  Major

Myron is quite a trooper sticking to his theme and making great progress.

Last we spoke a couple years ago, he said his traveling days were done, so no more speaking at

our AAPS conferences. Our loss.

Luv, jud


From: "KAH"
To: judyspapergoods@charter.net
Sent: Saturday February 2 2019 1:01:23PM
Subject: Re: 2019 dates

Thanks Judy. Sorry to learn of eye issues; never good. Just checking:  is Lon’s address majot or major cloudrunner? A typo maybe?  BTW, Steve Hilgren, Valdimar and Myron are making some great progress confirming “Vinland of the West” is Minnesota.

Sent from my iPhone

Karl Hoenke


[Message clipped]  View entire message

Valdimar Samúelsson
Feb 5, 2019, 7:46 AM (1 day ago)
to steve, me, Karl, Aidon, thowsen, Frode

I aggree with Steve especially after having had opportunity to work with Steve Dimarzo in RI and Judi in SD.

If we take Karlsefni for example but he did not sail in to or up St Lawrence river or fjörd see;. They had found some agriculture items on one of the islands in the delta or opening before the river entered the Gulf of St.L.
I always put question on that and sure answer my self. No Icelandic Explorer or settler would dear settle on other people land.
That would cost trouble and no gain of anybody. They had honor system.
For me this is the main issue in our sagas and can be seen in our Landnáma book. . We had very few men from Norway that did try some with success some not but recorded as evil person.
Now what people dis such recording.?

17 thousands Jews is ridiculous but still possible if we take eourope had deported them and sure Britain ( england) could not take in such and feed them. Irish had fleet of ships that seemed to have come to Iceland both selling and buying and still our farm and mountain names say like Irish Harbor and Irish this and that. With Irish on Whitemansland it would be scholarly type  stupitnes to even think Irisher would not do commerce with their fellow citizens over there.

In Lewis and Clark one elderly or Chief said to them one old man was 100 winters old.  This was always said in Iceland both about human and animals.

The only way for Nordics or I would like to say Icelanders as those Icelanders in the mid west of MN and ND had settled before King of Norway in 1262 took Iceland, Greenland and people moving south so they had no right to take those lands but still he had Knudsen expedition claim lands settled by Icelanders by setting the KRS where it is.

Now I may sound like lunatic. :-) anyway lets continue. Remember we have all those cairns pointing towards Minnesota area.

Best Valdimar.   

steve hilgren
Feb 5, 2019, 7:57 AM (1 day ago)
to wmsmithrock1@yahoo.com, Vang, Valdimar, Karl, Frode, Aidon, me, thowsen@msn.com

Thank you

From: Valdimar Samúelsson <valdimar.samuelsson@simnet.is>
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 7:46 AM
To: steve hilgren
Cc: Myron Paine; Karl Hoenke; Aidon Aakelas; thowsen@msn.com; Frode Omdahl
Subject: Re: ''This Was Vinland'' the Great Lakes Region of America''

I aggree with Steve especially after having had opportunity to work with Steve Dimarzo in RI and Judi in SD.

If we take Karlsefni for example but he did not sail in to or up St Lawrence river or fjörd see;. They had found some agriculture items on one of the islands in the delta or opening before the river entered the Gulf of St.L.
I always put question on that and sure answer my self. No Icelandic Explorer or settler would dear settle on other people land.
That would cost trouble and no gain of anybody. They had honor system.
For me this is the main issue in our sagas and can be seen in our Landnáma book. . We had very few men from Norway that did try some with success some not but recorded as evil person.
Now what people dis such recording.?

17 thousands Jews is ridiculous Irish had fleet of ships that seemed to have come to Iceland both selling and buying and still our farm and mountain names say like Irish Harbor and Irish this and that. With Irish on Whitemansland it would be scholarly type  stupitnes to even think Irisher would not do commerce with their fellow citizens over there.

[Message clipped]  View entire message

Monday, January 28, 2019


The map of each state has names with the syllable “ING” in many Place Names.  Most of the time “ING” is an Old Norse syllable, which meant place.  When the “ING” syllable appears, the name probably evolved from people speaking Old Norse.
But the English learned Old Norse also.  So to determine if the syllable came from Old Norse men in America or from Englishmen, who learned the name in England, is a challenge.
The English MYTH is that there were NO Norse Men in America.  The evidence is that most early Americans were Catholics, who spoke Norse.  So “ING” by itself is not good evidence to determine if the Norse or English created the name.  But if ING is joined with other Old Norse syllables, as in "Kensington," then the place name was probably created by a Norse man before the English invaded.


“VIK” means “VALLEY”
Here is how Reider T. Sherwin explained “VIK”:
“VIK” might have meant “”VALLEY” and/or the “RIVER” in the valley and/or the “BAY” the river flowed into.
Based on the other definitions Sherwin wrote, “VIK” may be the “V” shape.
Another spelling for ‘VIK” is “WICK.”  “SUNWICK” BAY is found on maps in America and in Norway.
(The “WICK” – “BAY” is redundant.)  
“KENNEWICK” in the state of WASHINGTON implies that someone with OLD NORSE syllables in his head was walked in the “KENNE” (“WIDE”) “WICK (VALLEY).”
I, personally, have learned that thinking of “VIK” as “VALLEY” results in the better understanding of things in America.  
So with "VALLEY PLACE" in my mind, I used Google Earth to see if VIKING, OHIO was near a valley.  The Ohio "VALLEY PLACE has valleys on the south, west and north.
The VIKING, MN town overlooks a broad Valley.  So, in two out of two locations, the implication is that “VIK” does mean “VALLEY’
The VIKING name may have evolved in the 9th century, when the DANES settled in the valleys of England and the ANGLOS still held the hills.

The ANGLOS might have called the DANES the people who lived in the “VALLEY PLACE.” (VIKING).
The war propaganda went on for over two  centuries.  During that time period, Norse people were switching to Catholism.  The Norse men began to wear feathers on their headgear as a symbol of their Christian faith.  The ANGLOS appear to have tried to turn the people in the VALLY PLACE (VIKING) into boogey men, who wore horns.

The ANGLOS survived the DANELAW invasion only to have another set of NORSEMEN return in the Norman invasion of 1066.  The ENGLISH prevailed in the assimilation struggle that followed.  Part of that struggle may have been a deliberate attempt to continue to portray the Norse as VIKING boogey men.

“VIK” means “VALLEY”

Saturday, January 26, 2019



Vik, Ing, Vill


This activity is intended for upper Elementary and high school students in Ohio Catholic Schools, who have heard MUCHINIPPI 

The purpose is for the students to learn:

That many of the place names in Ohio were in place BEFORE the English invaded.

How to look up Norse names in a map index.

How to find locations on the map by using the coordinates

Learn Three Old Norse syllables and their meaning.


About 1000 years ago, Catholics, who spoke Norse, first named many places in Ohio.  They got here in rowboats, which usually had about sixteen people in a boat designed for twenty rowers

You (the students) can locate some of the places named by the Catholics on maps.

Take for example: the Ohio town called “VIKING, VILLIAGE.”

“VIKING” is a two-syllable Old Norse word.

(The English wanted us to think the VIKING meant a nasty old boogey man, who wore horns.  The English Protestants were fighting a war against the Catholics.  The English propaganda used misleading images like showing horns instead of the feathers the Norse wore to show they were Catholic.  The English also suppressed Norse words by omitting them in publications.

(Actually the syllable was spelled “ANG” in Old Norse dictionaries, which brings up an important GUIDELINE.
Old Norse was spoken 1,000 years ago.  As the language evolved the vowels changed the fastest.   So the GUIDLINE for you (students) looking up place names is “VOWELS ARE INTERCHANGABLE.”
In this case the syllable that was spelled “ANG 1000 years ago is printed on most maps as “ING” today.

VILLE was an Old Norse syllable, which meant “VILLAGE” 1000 years ago.
 (The name has survived with the same meaning for 1000 years.  Which proves another GUIDLINE: 

H ere is what VIKING VILLE; OHIO looks like today via Google Earth.  
Your students may be able to find the place if they use the driving app in your smart phones

Notice that VIKING VILLE, which meant Valley Place Village 1000 years ago, has valleys on the the SOUTH, WEST, and NORTH.  There should be little doubt that the Norse named the place, “VIKING (valley place) VILL long before the English drove away the Catholics, who spoke Norse.


The invading English created a MYTH.
Wrote that there were NO Norse in America.  Nobody from the east side of the Atlantic came to Ohio before Columbus.  Everyone, even I, (the teacher) was taught that MYTH.

But if the MYTH is so, WHO placed three Old Norse syllables on an Ohio village that has valleys on three sides?


Show the students an Atlas.

Count the number of columns for Ohio.

Divide, if possible, the class into groups for each column,
If you have more students than columns assign teams for each column.
If you have more columns than students, then assign two or more columns per student.

Have the students find the towns in their column with one or more of the three syllables in the name.

Because the English used Norse names too, the Old Norse did name every town in America, but the English, who learned the Old Norse names in England, named some places.

The challenge is to figure out whether the Norse named the place directly because they were there first or whether the English named the place after they invaded the Catholics, who spoke Norse.

Have the students make a sub category of towns with two of the three syllables.
(Names with two syllables are more likely to have been Old Norse names.)

Make a third category for names with ALL the syllables being “VIK” “ING” or “Ville.”
                    (Catholics, who spoke Norse, are more likely to have used those names.”


Did the students learn how to use the Atlas index?

Did the students learn how to find towns by coordinates?

Could the students find VIKING VILL on their SMART phones?

Did the students find towns with 1, or 2 Old Norse syllables?

Did the students find names with ALL syllables: “VIK” “ING” OR “VILLE?”

Congratulate the class. They have learned to look up towns on a map.
 They learned some towns in Ohio have syllables that may have been spoken by Catholics, who spoke Norse, 1000 years ago.
They learned that the English MYTH does not explain all place names.

If YOU (the teacher) complete this assignment, you may have the satisfaction that Catholic spirits who still speak Norse, are thinking that